[Fwd: Re: [Gslug-general] Expert panel for new users at December meeting?]

[Ken Meyer]

This aspect of a really great overall discussion is getting to be something
of a geek's religious debate, even if it is ostensibly aimed at propitiating
the newbie crew.

After having attended GSLUG meetings for more than 5 years and having had a
central (and eventually exclusive) role in organizing the meetings for three
of them, I can say unequivocally that the so-called "General Users" HAVE
BEEN, and WILL BE, at the meetings.  With all respect, Stan, your assumption
is incorrect.  That is, of course, unless the newbs are turned-off by an
unrelenting stream made up exclusively of arcane lexicon and talk based on
assumptions of a high level of expertise.  In fact, some will actually show
up anyway, since it seemed to me that some of the hard core, bless their
intrepid hearts, must not actually wake up until firmly ensconced in their
seats in 3319, thinking, "Damn, here I am again; must be the second
Saturday."

I have attended meetings of NUMEROUS computing user groups over the years,
and one of the things that makes me so proud and supportive of Linux groups
is the degree to which they typically reach out to new users.  That is
almost, albeit not completely, unique to the Linux groups; and of course,
the motivation is not entirely altruistic, since the idea is to render our
favorite environment accepted and widely available.

The Visual Basic Developers Association's general meetings are usually very
high level; they used to have a separate beginners' session every other
month, but I think that has faded.  Tim Maher used to have an intro session
to Perl about every three or four months at SPUG meetings.  Most other
groups I am familiar with are friendly to newbies and welcome their
questions, but they don't plan agendas around them, though occasional
meeting subjects may be high-level and qualitative enough to be
understandable to most any reasonably computer literate person.

Ergo, if the General User is not coming to GSLUG meetings, I submit that
GSLUG is not fulfilling its promise in promoting open source positively --
and not simply by flinging vitriol at Windows, as much as we may distain it
and especially Bill G's and Balmy's business practices.

The answer to this debate about CLI vs. GUI is, obviously, that both are
valid subjects.  However, the "walk-before-run principle" suggests that most
of the curious who appear at meetings are reasonably competent with Windows,
which is the system on which they were initially trained by default, so the
easiest transfer to Linux begins with showing how the GUI is similar, how it
is better, and how you can do the things that you normally do on Windows by
using Linux.

Then, when one can make his or her way around the desktop and perform
routine chores, the added power available via the CLI will delight them,
even if they mainly cut-and-paste their scripts at first.

Someone suggested here, or was it TacLUG, that having a group work session
would be useful.  That is, bring your laptop and we will install a live CD
and walk you through some of the possibilities.  That will Jump Start a lot
of folks who just feel "at sea" and intimidated trying to do it from scratch
themselves.  In fact, the group could look into the possibility of having an
occasional meeting down in one of the computer lab rooms at North, so no one
will have to bring a laptop; and the session would not be so likely to bog
down in solving various machines' unique driver compatibility problems.

Much more later, but I need to change some spark plugs before the weather
goes completely to Hell again.  Keep up the excellent dialog!

Ken Meyer


-----Original Message-----

From: gslug-general-bounces at gslug.org
[mailto:gslug-general-bounces at gslug.org]
On Behalf Of Stan Dyck
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:02 PM
To: Gslug-general at gslug.org

Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Gslug-general] Expert panel for new users at
Decembermeeting?]

Oops, I only responsed to John. Trying again...
We're losing focus here. I think John is right that a power users
command line panel would put *general* users into a fetal position,
but...and this is important so it gets its own line...

General users aren't going to be at the meeting.

Courageous folks like John and Violette, who *are* interested will be there.

I think demonstrating the power of the CLI is a valuable lesson worth
exposing the those who are brave enough to show up on a Saturday
morning. Plus, the rest of us who think we already know everything might
actually learn a new trick.

Whattayallsay?

StanD.

p.s. Speaking of CLI, if you haven't read Neal Stephenson's essay "In
the Beginning was the Command Line" yet, it's well worth googling and
setting aside the time to read even though it's pretty long (duh, it's
Neal Stephenson).

John Locke wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > Not sure if I've posted to the list, and I haven't made it to a GSLUG
 > meeting, but I've been lurking for a while...
 >
 > I'd consider myself a fairly expert Linux user -- we administer around
 > 25 Linux servers, I've been using Linux since early 2000, and as my
 > primary desktop since 2003. I've installed Linux on dozens of machines,
 > and got at least a dozen other people introduced to Linux. I spend lots
 > of time in a shell, generally have two or three shell windows open, each
 > with 3 or 4 tabs, and several running multiple screen sessions.
 >
 > And I think what you're describing below would send all of the people
 > I've introduced to Linux scurrying back to Windows...
 >
 > *I* might be interested in attending a power user shell tutorial, but
 > not most of the general users I know.
 >
 > I have a client who recently decided to give Linux a try on his laptop.
 > He's having trouble understanding how to install software that isn't
 > available in the Ubuntu repositories, and why Moneydance can't save his
 > files in /opt. I suggested he attend a GSLUG event to learn more about
 > using the desktop (we provide server support, not much desktop support).
 >
 > I think doing a panel for newbies is a great idea, and I'd certainly be
 > willing to sit on it... I think shell stuff should be saved for
 > something clearly labeled "Power User", not newbie... the newbie panel
 > should cover things like permissions, user accounts, changing passwords,
 > installing software, throwing away driver CDs, etc.
 >
 > And, while I know this may be heresy, but I think it's important to show
 > how to do all this stuff without opening a shell or using a "run"
 > window. Use Ubuntu or Fedora or something and demonstrate how to do what
 > you need to do using the GUI tools. At the very end, then suggest that,
 > while you almost never *need* to do anything in a shell, that it can be
 > much quicker than trying to find the GUI tools... perhaps repeat a
 > couple of exercises previously done using the GUI tools, but do it in a
 > shell to show how much more power and speed is there... suggest that
 > they don't need to ever use the shell, but they might want to learn. And
 > leave it at that--send those who didn't turn white on to the power shell
 > users seminar...
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
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