From starquestnerd at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 12:13:33 2009 From: starquestnerd at gmail.com (Joe moo) Date: Sat Sep 12 07:31:08 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) Message-ID: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and is probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than netbooks. I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and followed by the majority of projects. IMHO one of the reasons Windoze beats Linux in the usage percentage is because Windoze has an architecture that most applications follow (Yes Linux follows UNIX but not much farther than the system/core/X.org level). This is also a pain for developers as well I mean who wants to write software based on two GUI libraries? WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross platform architecture. Then there's the package manager issue, do users want to use some fancy application to install software or the familiar double click the desktop icon? some like one some like the other but how do you think they feel when they can't install their favorite fedora package on Ubuntu? One solution to that is the pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! Linux needs to stick to a standard that users can follow if it is to thrive! PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! From zaltar at myway.com Sat Sep 5 18:02:32 2009 From: zaltar at myway.com (Paul DeShaw) Date: Sat Sep 12 07:31:13 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Is the GSLUG list up? Message-ID: <20090905210232.458@web009.roc2.bluetie.com> Hi, I don't see any messages, and the last one I sent a week ago never came back from the list. I am trying again. --Paul D. ------------------------------------------------------------ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://216.21.215.31/fc/FgElN1l88j1s36g0tVpzO55bFVin1T6B6aLnq42Zw6PEqVSUDbFz7sdzFk8/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090905/ef3c6ebf/attachment.htm From mark at foster.cc Wed Sep 9 07:12:19 2009 From: mark at foster.cc (Mark Foster) Date: Sat Sep 12 07:31:23 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] GSLUG meeting Saturday Sep 12th Message-ID: <4AA7B7C3.3060908@foster.cc> Come one, come all! The next Greater Seattle LINUX User Group meeting is next Saturday September 12th @ 12 noon. The meeting location is the Google offices in Fremont. Follow the URL below for more details. This month features the GSLUG Quiz, talks about RPM packaging and PGP keys. We'll also have pizza & soda this time, whee! Action items: * Please RSVP if you plan to attend (and bring a friend, too) * Consider signing up for a talk - still at least one slot open. * The topic is still undecided - suggest something if you like * key-signing - send your key fingerprint to Michael Evans From nano2x at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 23:46:10 2009 From: nano2x at gmail.com (NaNO2x) Date: Sat Sep 12 07:31:31 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Meeting 9/12/2009 Message-ID: <7609d1ab0909112346w6cbdad04ofc1e4c70bff2e390@mail.gmail.com> Hello GSluggers, It's that time again, a meeting will be held tomorrow at Google Fremont. More information can be found at http://gslug.org/index.php/Meeting_2009-09-12 I hope to see everyone there, and remember, if you have a talk you want to give, try and put it up on the wiki before the meeting. -William Utinam me logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant. From bri at ifokr.org Sat Sep 12 07:36:30 2009 From: bri at ifokr.org (Brian Hatch) Date: Sat Sep 12 07:36:34 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Is this list working? In-Reply-To: <20090825203330.29815@web013.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20090825203330.29815@web013.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <20090912143626.GD2310@ifokr.org> Close to 2009-08-25 20:33 -0400, Paul DeShaw verbalized: > If anyone sees this, please e-mail me back directly. I am not receiving mail from the GSLUG list. 1) yes it's working 2) looks like it wasn't for a bit this week, and mails were stuck in the queue. They're flowing again now. 3) /me must set some monitoring on problems like #2. -- Bri Hatch, Systems and Security Engineer. http://www.ifokr.org/bri/ Scientists will study your brain to learn more about your distant cousin, Man. Every message PGP signed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090912/38b69338/attachment.pgp From mark at foster.cc Sat Sep 12 09:14:34 2009 From: mark at foster.cc (Mark Foster) Date: Sat Sep 12 09:13:43 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio In-Reply-To: <20090823203523.7254@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20090823203523.7254@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <4AABC8EA.7080501@foster.cc> Paul DeShaw wrote: > I would like some of this historic content preserved beyond the 2 week > expiration date on the KBCS servers. > 1. Is it legal? Do you have the rights to make copies, even for private use? 2. Check out http://mark.foster.cc/blog/2007/12/ripping-streams-with-mplayer-and-ffmpeg.html for an example using ffmpeg. -- I hate racists. Mark D. Foster http://mark.foster.cc/ | http://conshell.net/ From keziahw at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 09:23:33 2009 From: keziahw at gmail.com (Keziah Wesley) Date: Sat Sep 12 09:29:17 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio In-Reply-To: <20090823120450.15849@web008.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20090823120450.15849@web008.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <9b6b13b80909120923o2d4910bcm448f3b52bb45546b@mail.gmail.com> You want: lame -x -r - /media/disk/KBCSarchives/bebop081809.mp3 The lone dash is important. The command is: lame If you don't specify the input is (stdin, "-"), you're using the outfile as the infile and not specifying an outfile. On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 09:04, Paul DeShaw wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to revisit this, now that KBCS is retiring most of, IMHO, the > best programming available anywhere. Their streaming archives go back two > weeks, after which they will be deleted. > > Last night, I followed the link to the blog mentioned by Lucas below, and > was able to record to an external drive. Unfortunately, through an apparent > slip of the finger it was recorded as mp4 rather than mp3, but it is there: > > pad@MacBuntu:~$ ls /media/disk/KBCSarchives > 082109drivetime.mp4 > > I tried again with another show today, and it can't seem to write the file; > acts as if it's looking for an existing file: > > pad@MacBuntu:~$ arecord -f cd -d 10800 -t raw | lame -x -r > /media/disk/KBCSarchives/bebop081809.mp3 > Recording raw data 'stdin' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 44100 Hz, > Stereo > Could not find "/media/disk/KBCSarchives/bebop081809.mp3". > pad@MacBuntu:~$ arecord -f cd -d 10800 -t raw | lame -x -r > /media/disk/KBCSarchives/bebop081809.mp3 > Could not find "/media/disk/KBCSarchives/bebop081809.mp3". > Recording raw data 'stdin' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 44100 Hz, > Stereo > > > For reference I'm quoting the instructions from the blog: > > "Arecord captures the audio that goes through your computer and pipes it to > the lame encoder, so you encode the audio directly to an mp3 file. You can > specify more options to the lame encoder such as the bitrate with lame -x -b > bitrate. Without specifying the bitrate it encodes to 128kbps constant bit > rate cbr. If you want to record for an specific amount of time then: > > arecord -f cd -d numberofseconds -t raw | lame -x -r ? out.mp3" > > It looks like it's recording three hours of something and putting it > somewhere, but I don't know what and where. In the command above, I > substituted "out.mp3" with a filepath and filename to try to write to the > directory I created on my external hard drive, /media/KBCSarchives. This is > exactly what I did last night, and I ended up with a file in that directory, > only it was an .mp4. Can anyone see any mistakes, or suggest another way to > archive some streaming shows? Volunteer DJs were pushed out the door after > over 20 years in some cases, playing music that may never be heard on radio > again. I would like some of this historic content preserved beyond the 2 > week expiration date on the KBCS servers. > > Thanks, > > Paul DeShaw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Lucas Thompson" [lucas.thompson@gmail.com] > Date: 07/06/2009 10:01 PM > To: Gslug-general@gslug.org > Subject: Re: [Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio > > I used to do that to record a radio show on a regular basis. It only > took a few minutes to set up. > > This seems to be a good blog post on it: > < > http://jordilin.wordpress.com/2006/07/28/howto-recording-audio-from-the-command-line/ > > > > One thing the post misses is that sometimes the mixer levels will > become reset. The non-GUI mixer will let you save and restore settings > into a file. You should figure out and save the mixer levels you want > and restore them right before you start the recording to make sure > it's all set correctly. > > imho, it doesn't matter in this case how good (fast? featureful? > reliable?) the programs are. If you just have a fixed job to do, just > find the thing that does it correctly and forget about it. > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 9:09 PM, wrote: > > > > Who has experience working with audio? I am new to scripting and I need > some help with doing scheduled recording. I would probably need to do it > from a script and run from the cron tab. I don't know of any timer features > inside a Linux audio program that will work, but open to hear any > suggestions. The timer record feature in Audacity is not versatile or > reliable enough for what I need to do > ------------------------------ > Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here. Weight > Loss Program Click > Here For More Information > > _______________________________________________ > Gslug-general mailing list > Gslug-general@gslug.org > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090912/fd820db2/attachment-0001.html From rijilv at riji.lv Sat Sep 12 09:33:07 2009 From: rijilv at riji.lv (RijilV) Date: Sat Sep 12 09:32:20 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Trying to stop all CRON activity form showing up in my local-mail In-Reply-To: <576599.31135.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <576599.31135.qm@web53706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5068c6420909120933p769978a5td0dd7f309d60ceaf@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/28 David : > Kind'a inherited an openSuSE box (10.3), which has been fun to learn. ?But I > have one 'issue' that I don't even know where to look to RTFM. ?So an answer > or some direction would be great - either one. > The mail-box of the main user as well as Root is constantly being filled > with, essentially, very small emails that CRON jobs either did or did not > run successfully. ?I get these messeges for small, shell scripts I've > created to run every week or two as well as some Root-run scripts that are > used for webpage/hit analysis. > Any idea where I look (either config files or keywords to search on) to stop > these worthless messages (worthless because either a log file has the info. > I need or it is obvious something went wrong/didn't happen). > Thanks, > David > In the past I've done one of the following: - set MAILTO in all effected crontabs to "" . These will be in /var/spool/cron/crontabs, /etc/cron.*, /etc/crontab. - tacked on a >/dev/null 2>&1 to the end of any effected command. This is in the same file locations as above. - modified the effected scripts to not output anything. Not sure where you keep your scripts, but you can find them in the locations mentioned above. As where to RFTM, I highly suggest starting with 'man cron' followed up with a 'man 5 crontab' (as likely suggested at the bottom of the former man page). Cheers, .r' From ryanc at greengrey.org Sat Sep 12 13:07:40 2009 From: ryanc at greengrey.org (Ryan Corder) Date: Sat Sep 12 13:12:03 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090912200740.GA29471@greengrey.org> On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 12:13:33PM -0700, Joe moo wrote: | One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my | opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different | options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and | Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the | inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and is | probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than | netbooks. I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of | the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and followed | by the majority of projects. IMHO one of the reasons Windoze beats | Linux in the usage percentage is because Windoze has an architecture | that most applications follow (Yes Linux follows UNIX but not much | farther than the system/core/X.org level). This is also a pain for | developers as well I mean who wants to write software based on two GUI | libraries? WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross | platform architecture. Then there's the package manager issue, do | users want to use some fancy application to install software or the | familiar double click the desktop icon? some like one some like the | other but how do you think they feel when they can't install their | favorite fedora package on Ubuntu? One solution to that is the | pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! Linux needs to | stick to a standard that users can follow if it is to thrive! | | PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! I think you need to read up so more. Windows has the same problems as Linux when it comes to consistency. I can think of at least 5 different widget sets available for Windows; same goes for frameworks, et al. I for one, would not be happy if there was only one widget set to choose from for making GUI apps, or one packaging system. Each has it's specialty/specifics and that's what makes them powerful. That choice is what I appreciate with Open Source, in general. As I stated at the beginning, you need to read up more. Start over at freedesktop.org if you think there are no standards being set and followed. -- Ryan Corder || () ASCII ribbon campaign || /\ against HTML email http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1CB59D69 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090912/c9c91018/attachment.pgp From beyer.andrew at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 13:34:49 2009 From: beyer.andrew at gmail.com (Andrew Beyer) Date: Sat Sep 12 13:41:38 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ce22be90909121334m32521cebq392e0b723d342d9d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Joe moo wrote: > One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my > opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different > options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and > Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the > inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and is I won't argue that it isn't an issue, but I fail to see how you could resolve all the inconsistencies without sacrificing most of the benefits of having the variety in the first place. There are things that _should_ be consistent, where consistency does not meaningfully impact people's choices, but most of them already are...POSIX, LSB, freedesktop.org, and others have already resolved most of the low-hanging fruit here. I think the things that they haven't approached or haven't succeeded in standardizing are mostly those where by mandating a standard you take away choices people want to be able to make. > probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than > netbooks. Major hardware vendors marketed netbooks with linux to a general audience. That hasn't happened on the same scale for any other class of hardware (at least any comparable to a pc -- I'll ignore more deeply embedded devices for the moment), so I don't think its really a valid comparison. The vast majority of people use the os that ships on their computer and are unlikely to switch...many don't know they can. > I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of > the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and followed > by the majority of projects. Lots of people have tried...good luck. > is because Windoze has an architecture > that most applications follow I'm going a bit off-topic here, but I'd take issue with that. For a single entity, Microsoft can put out an amazing and bewildering array of related and overlapping technologies with the attending inconsistencies and incompatibilities. The core win32 api is relatively clean and consistent, but is pretty much comparable to what posix offers...not enough of a standard to build on from scratch. I think .NET alleviated, if still not resolved the issue. But particularly before then, writing a significant application on windows involved a fair bit of black magic making Win32, MFC, ATL, COM, COM+, ActiveX, the VB runtime, et. al. cooperate unless any one of them provided everything you needed, and you didn't interact with any other software that used any of the others. > WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross > platform architecture > ... > One solution to that is the > pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! Both technologies which, even if you can argue their technical superiority to other options, are already uncommon/underrepresented. Try to build a standard on that, and you get a "standard" on paper which no one conforms to. Adoption has to come before standardization unless you just want to put out well intentioned documents, or can force people to comply. If you really think these are the solution, your task isn't standardization, it's advocacy... you need to convince people to adopt them. Get a modern and full-featured web browser and office suite to adopt WX as their gui platform. (if you suggest this on the mozilla or oo.org lists, please don't cc me on the resulting flamefest :) Get everything (or some significant subset) in Ubuntu's universe or multiverse (or some other sufficiently large set of software) packaged as an autopackage file, and publish a central collection somewhere. > Linux needs to stick to a standard that users can follow if it is to thrive! Does it? Why should every distribution that happens to use the same kernel also make all the same choices and trade-offs in userspace? If you want a consistent set of choices already pre-made for you, why not just stick with windows? Or choose a single linux-based distro and use the software packaged for it? If you want to make your own set of choices, what makes you think they will be any more generally appropriate for everyone else than the ones various distros have made? > PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! And I'm not putting down your ideas, but there have never been a dearth of people with ideas of how linux should "standardize", particularly when said standard would include their favorite bits of software. I'm not saying that there aren't huge improvements to be made in many areas, but I think the solution is to develop and/or spread the better software, not to rhapsodize on the merits of it being declared a standard. From thushw at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 17:52:53 2009 From: thushw at gmail.com (Thushara Wijeratna) Date: Sat Sep 12 17:58:29 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <9ce22be90909121334m32521cebq392e0b723d342d9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> <9ce22be90909121334m32521cebq392e0b723d342d9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2625b9520909121752w525ea0a5t996213181dbc66fa@mail.gmail.com> the biggest problem i've found with Linux is the lack of drivers. also GPL has restrictions on shipping non-open drivers so one has to go and find them. patent laws prevent reverse engineering drivers. thushara On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Beyer wrote: > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Joe moo wrote: > > One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my > > opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different > > options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and > > Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the > > inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and is > > I won't argue that it isn't an issue, but I fail to see how you could > resolve all the inconsistencies without sacrificing most of the > benefits of having the variety in the first place. There are things > that _should_ be consistent, where consistency does not meaningfully > impact people's choices, but most of them already are...POSIX, LSB, > freedesktop.org, and others have already resolved most of the > low-hanging fruit here. I think the things that they haven't > approached or haven't succeeded in standardizing are mostly those > where by mandating a standard you take away choices people want to be > able to make. > > > probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than > > netbooks. > > Major hardware vendors marketed netbooks with linux to a general > audience. That hasn't happened on the same scale for any other class > of hardware (at least any comparable to a pc -- I'll ignore more > deeply embedded devices for the moment), so I don't think its really a > valid comparison. The vast majority of people use the os that ships on > their computer and are unlikely to switch...many don't know they can. > > > I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of > > the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and followed > > by the majority of projects. > > Lots of people have tried...good luck. > > > is because Windoze has an architecture > > that most applications follow > > I'm going a bit off-topic here, but I'd take issue with that. For a > single entity, Microsoft can put out an amazing and bewildering array > of related and overlapping technologies with the attending > inconsistencies and incompatibilities. The core win32 api is > relatively clean and consistent, but is pretty much comparable to what > posix offers...not enough of a standard to build on from scratch. I > think .NET alleviated, if still not resolved the issue. But > particularly before then, writing a significant application on windows > involved a fair bit of black magic making Win32, MFC, ATL, COM, COM+, > ActiveX, the VB runtime, et. al. cooperate unless any one of them > provided everything you needed, and you didn't interact with any other > software that used any of the others. > > > WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross > > platform architecture > > ... > > One solution to that is the > > pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! > > Both technologies which, even if you can argue their technical > superiority to other options, are already uncommon/underrepresented. > Try to build a standard on that, and you get a "standard" on paper > which no one conforms to. Adoption has to come before standardization > unless you just want to put out well intentioned documents, or can > force people to comply. > > If you really think these are the solution, your task isn't > standardization, it's advocacy... you need to convince people to adopt > them. Get a modern and full-featured web browser and office suite to > adopt WX as their gui platform. (if you suggest this on the mozilla or > oo.org lists, please don't cc me on the resulting flamefest :) Get > everything (or some significant subset) in Ubuntu's universe or > multiverse (or some other sufficiently large set of software) packaged > as an autopackage file, and publish a central collection somewhere. > > > Linux needs to stick to a standard that users can follow if it is to > thrive! > > Does it? Why should every distribution that happens to use the same > kernel also make all the same choices and trade-offs in userspace? If > you want a consistent set of choices already pre-made for you, why > not just stick with windows? Or choose a single linux-based distro and > use the software packaged for it? If you want to make your own set of > choices, what makes you think they will be any more generally > appropriate for everyone else than the ones various distros have made? > > > PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! > > And I'm not putting down your ideas, but there have never been a > dearth of people with ideas of how linux should "standardize", > particularly when said standard would include their favorite bits of > software. I'm not saying that there aren't huge improvements to be > made in many areas, but I think the solution is to develop and/or > spread the better software, not to rhapsodize on the merits of it > being declared a standard. > _______________________________________________ > Gslug-general mailing list > Gslug-general@gslug.org > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090912/82c129eb/attachment.html From mjevans1983 at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 18:05:29 2009 From: mjevans1983 at gmail.com (Michael Evans) Date: Sat Sep 12 18:11:01 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <2625b9520909121752w525ea0a5t996213181dbc66fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> <9ce22be90909121334m32521cebq392e0b723d342d9d@mail.gmail.com> <2625b9520909121752w525ea0a5t996213181dbc66fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4877c76c0909121805y405fe22encc145b8e1fa9cb02@mail.gmail.com> Strict GPL compliance is one thing, and there are dists for that. However other dists will gladly include any (reasonably useful/sized) firmware blob that might be required by open-source drivers to initialise and operate the hardware. As an example, the bcm43xx (b43) firmware; for whatever inane reason the producer of the chipset vendors don't allow the actual firmware part (which isn't useful on anything but that hardware) to be freely distributed (as part of that larger general package). This is exactly why I had to jump-start the other gentelman's laptop with the little blue (RAlink based chipset) Wifi adapter, so he could actually download the network driver (and extract the firmware part) to make his laptop's hardware actually work. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090912/e421e842/attachment-0001.htm From jvoss at altsci.com Sat Sep 12 18:36:00 2009 From: jvoss at altsci.com (Joel R. Voss) Date: Sat Sep 12 18:42:25 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <2625b9520909121752w525ea0a5t996213181dbc66fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> <9ce22be90909121334m32521cebq392e0b723d342d9d@mail.gmail.com> <2625b9520909121752w525ea0a5t996213181dbc66fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909121836.01020.jvoss@altsci.com> Hi, I just thought I'd chime in here to say that patent laws do not prevent nor punish reverse engineering (nor does copyright). Reverse engineering is protected under fair use. http://chillingeffects.org/reverse Also hardware vendors and their patent holders have no reason to litigate over patents because drivers make their hardware accessible to a larger audience. Drivers are definitely a point where Linux is in heavy development. For example nouveau is reverse engineering and developing nvidia drivers from scratch. They are a few releases away from a stable 2d driver and possibly a year away from experimental 3d driver in the kernel. A few years ago wifi was in poor shape and now it just works for most of the drivers (b43 being one where extra firmware needs to be downloaded once). -- Regards, Joel R. Voss http://AltSci.com On Saturday 12 September 2009, Thushara Wijeratna wrote: > the biggest problem i've found with Linux is the lack of drivers. also GPL > has restrictions on shipping non-open drivers so one has to go and find > them. patent laws prevent reverse engineering drivers. > > thushara > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Beyer wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Joe moo wrote: > > > One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my > > > opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different > > > options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and > > > Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the > > > inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and is > > > > I won't argue that it isn't an issue, but I fail to see how you could > > resolve all the inconsistencies without sacrificing most of the > > benefits of having the variety in the first place. There are things > > that _should_ be consistent, where consistency does not meaningfully > > impact people's choices, but most of them already are...POSIX, LSB, > > freedesktop.org, and others have already resolved most of the > > low-hanging fruit here. I think the things that they haven't > > approached or haven't succeeded in standardizing are mostly those > > where by mandating a standard you take away choices people want to be > > able to make. > > > > > probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than > > > netbooks. > > > > Major hardware vendors marketed netbooks with linux to a general > > audience. That hasn't happened on the same scale for any other class > > of hardware (at least any comparable to a pc -- I'll ignore more > > deeply embedded devices for the moment), so I don't think its really a > > valid comparison. The vast majority of people use the os that ships on > > their computer and are unlikely to switch...many don't know they can. > > > > > I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of > > > the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and followed > > > by the majority of projects. > > > > Lots of people have tried...good luck. > > > > > is because Windoze has an architecture > > > that most applications follow > > > > I'm going a bit off-topic here, but I'd take issue with that. For a > > single entity, Microsoft can put out an amazing and bewildering array > > of related and overlapping technologies with the attending > > inconsistencies and incompatibilities. The core win32 api is > > relatively clean and consistent, but is pretty much comparable to what > > posix offers...not enough of a standard to build on from scratch. I > > think .NET alleviated, if still not resolved the issue. But > > particularly before then, writing a significant application on windows > > involved a fair bit of black magic making Win32, MFC, ATL, COM, COM+, > > ActiveX, the VB runtime, et. al. cooperate unless any one of them > > provided everything you needed, and you didn't interact with any other > > software that used any of the others. > > > > > WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross > > > platform architecture > > > ... > > > One solution to that is the > > > pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! > > > > Both technologies which, even if you can argue their technical > > superiority to other options, are already uncommon/underrepresented. > > Try to build a standard on that, and you get a "standard" on paper > > which no one conforms to. Adoption has to come before standardization > > unless you just want to put out well intentioned documents, or can > > force people to comply. > > > > If you really think these are the solution, your task isn't > > standardization, it's advocacy... you need to convince people to adopt > > them. Get a modern and full-featured web browser and office suite to > > adopt WX as their gui platform. (if you suggest this on the mozilla or > > oo.org lists, please don't cc me on the resulting flamefest :) Get > > everything (or some significant subset) in Ubuntu's universe or > > multiverse (or some other sufficiently large set of software) packaged > > as an autopackage file, and publish a central collection somewhere. > > > > > Linux needs to stick to a standard that users can follow if it is to > > > > thrive! > > > > Does it? Why should every distribution that happens to use the same > > kernel also make all the same choices and trade-offs in userspace? If > > you want a consistent set of choices already pre-made for you, why > > not just stick with windows? Or choose a single linux-based distro and > > use the software packaged for it? If you want to make your own set of > > choices, what makes you think they will be any more generally > > appropriate for everyone else than the ones various distros have made? > > > > > PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! > > > > And I'm not putting down your ideas, but there have never been a > > dearth of people with ideas of how linux should "standardize", > > particularly when said standard would include their favorite bits of > > software. I'm not saying that there aren't huge improvements to be > > made in many areas, but I think the solution is to develop and/or > > spread the better software, not to rhapsodize on the merits of it > > being declared a standard. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gslug-general mailing list > > Gslug-general@gslug.org > > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general From cemeyer at u.washington.edu Sat Sep 12 19:18:47 2009 From: cemeyer at u.washington.edu (Conrad Meyer) Date: Sat Sep 12 19:50:04 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] External Hard Drive Trouble with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909121918.47352.cemeyer@u.washington.edu> On Thursday 27 August 2009 09:30:57 pm Jonny Mnemonic wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Since the list has been quiet recently, I have a small problem that I'll > throw out for help. I have a Seagate 1TB SATA hard drive, inside an > Acommdata enclosure, plugged into a Belkin USB hub. The drive is currently > formatted as NTFS with one big partition. Whenever I turn the drive on, > Ubuntu (Jaunty) can't see it, and I get the following error messages in > dmesg: > > *snip* I've had very similar problems with cheap USB drive enclosures. I didn't find a solution other than unplugging / replugging it a bunch of times, and even then it would sometimes disconnect randomly. I never found a real solution and have it hooked up directly with SATA now. Regards, -- Conrad Meyer From steven_coles at yahoo.com Sat Sep 12 19:50:00 2009 From: steven_coles at yahoo.com (Siyazini_Coles) Date: Sat Sep 12 19:55:47 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Next-Generation Linux Message-ID: <973558.84092.qm@web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, One thing I like about gnu-Linux is the ability to optimize embedded, real-time, game-console, office, data-acquisition, and science analysis Linux for the their applications. I hate to see standards written in a way that restricts the ability to customize Linux. Steven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090912/070c1be6/attachment.html From thushw at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 09:41:12 2009 From: thushw at gmail.com (Thushara Wijeratna) Date: Sun Sep 13 09:40:20 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <200909121836.01020.jvoss@altsci.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> <9ce22be90909121334m32521cebq392e0b723d342d9d@mail.gmail.com> <2625b9520909121752w525ea0a5t996213181dbc66fa@mail.gmail.com> <200909121836.01020.jvoss@altsci.com> Message-ID: <2625b9520909130941t32671b51ha9e1abbadea6bba3@mail.gmail.com> hi Joel - from the link you sent, it seems that under the DMCA, you need to obtain permission from the manufacturer of the system you are reverse engineering. so for noveau, seems like you have the permission and it is all good. but obviously, it is possible to be denied that permission. you are correct that a hardware vendor should have no issues from some one reverse engineering in order to make a driver, but it is possible that a hardware manufacturer has an exclusive arrangement with a company (like Microsoft) that forces their hand. the one case i can remember off the top of my head is Bunnie's Xbox crack: http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082-996787.html here is another instance where ASF file format decoding was not allowed by MS: http://www.advogato.org/article/101.html thanks, thushara On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Joel R. Voss wrote: > Hi, > > I just thought I'd chime in here to say that patent laws do not prevent nor > punish reverse engineering (nor does copyright). Reverse engineering is > protected under fair use. http://chillingeffects.org/reverse Also hardware > vendors and their patent holders have no reason to litigate over patents > because drivers make their hardware accessible to a larger audience. > > Drivers are definitely a point where Linux is in heavy development. For > example nouveau is reverse engineering and developing nvidia drivers from > scratch. They are a few releases away from a stable 2d driver and possibly > a > year away from experimental 3d driver in the kernel. A few years ago wifi > was > in poor shape and now it just works for most of the drivers (b43 being one > where extra firmware needs to be downloaded once). > > -- > Regards, > Joel R. Voss > http://AltSci.com > > On Saturday 12 September 2009, Thushara Wijeratna wrote: > > the biggest problem i've found with Linux is the lack of drivers. also > GPL > > has restrictions on shipping non-open drivers so one has to go and find > > them. patent laws prevent reverse engineering drivers. > > > > thushara > > > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Beyer >wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Joe moo > wrote: > > > > One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my > > > > opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different > > > > options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and > > > > Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the > > > > inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and > is > > > > > > I won't argue that it isn't an issue, but I fail to see how you could > > > resolve all the inconsistencies without sacrificing most of the > > > benefits of having the variety in the first place. There are things > > > that _should_ be consistent, where consistency does not meaningfully > > > impact people's choices, but most of them already are...POSIX, LSB, > > > freedesktop.org, and others have already resolved most of the > > > low-hanging fruit here. I think the things that they haven't > > > approached or haven't succeeded in standardizing are mostly those > > > where by mandating a standard you take away choices people want to be > > > able to make. > > > > > > > probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than > > > > netbooks. > > > > > > Major hardware vendors marketed netbooks with linux to a general > > > audience. That hasn't happened on the same scale for any other class > > > of hardware (at least any comparable to a pc -- I'll ignore more > > > deeply embedded devices for the moment), so I don't think its really a > > > valid comparison. The vast majority of people use the os that ships on > > > their computer and are unlikely to switch...many don't know they can. > > > > > > > I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of > > > > the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and > followed > > > > by the majority of projects. > > > > > > Lots of people have tried...good luck. > > > > > > > is because Windoze has an architecture > > > > that most applications follow > > > > > > I'm going a bit off-topic here, but I'd take issue with that. For a > > > single entity, Microsoft can put out an amazing and bewildering array > > > of related and overlapping technologies with the attending > > > inconsistencies and incompatibilities. The core win32 api is > > > relatively clean and consistent, but is pretty much comparable to what > > > posix offers...not enough of a standard to build on from scratch. I > > > think .NET alleviated, if still not resolved the issue. But > > > particularly before then, writing a significant application on windows > > > involved a fair bit of black magic making Win32, MFC, ATL, COM, COM+, > > > ActiveX, the VB runtime, et. al. cooperate unless any one of them > > > provided everything you needed, and you didn't interact with any other > > > software that used any of the others. > > > > > > > WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross > > > > platform architecture > > > > ... > > > > One solution to that is the > > > > pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! > > > > > > Both technologies which, even if you can argue their technical > > > superiority to other options, are already uncommon/underrepresented. > > > Try to build a standard on that, and you get a "standard" on paper > > > which no one conforms to. Adoption has to come before standardization > > > unless you just want to put out well intentioned documents, or can > > > force people to comply. > > > > > > If you really think these are the solution, your task isn't > > > standardization, it's advocacy... you need to convince people to adopt > > > them. Get a modern and full-featured web browser and office suite to > > > adopt WX as their gui platform. (if you suggest this on the mozilla or > > > oo.org lists, please don't cc me on the resulting flamefest :) Get > > > everything (or some significant subset) in Ubuntu's universe or > > > multiverse (or some other sufficiently large set of software) packaged > > > as an autopackage file, and publish a central collection somewhere. > > > > > > > Linux needs to stick to a standard that users can follow if it is to > > > > > > thrive! > > > > > > Does it? Why should every distribution that happens to use the same > > > kernel also make all the same choices and trade-offs in userspace? If > > > you want a consistent set of choices already pre-made for you, why > > > not just stick with windows? Or choose a single linux-based distro and > > > use the software packaged for it? If you want to make your own set of > > > choices, what makes you think they will be any more generally > > > appropriate for everyone else than the ones various distros have made? > > > > > > > PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! > > > > > > And I'm not putting down your ideas, but there have never been a > > > dearth of people with ideas of how linux should "standardize", > > > particularly when said standard would include their favorite bits of > > > software. I'm not saying that there aren't huge improvements to be > > > made in many areas, but I think the solution is to develop and/or > > > spread the better software, not to rhapsodize on the merits of it > > > being declared a standard. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gslug-general mailing list > > > Gslug-general@gslug.org > > > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > _______________________________________________ > Gslug-general mailing list > Gslug-general@gslug.org > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090913/8025acfd/attachment-0001.htm From vernon at drizzle.com Sun Sep 13 16:32:07 2009 From: vernon at drizzle.com (Vernon Van Steenkist) Date: Sun Sep 13 16:38:34 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Re: Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio In-Reply-To: <20090912162925.CA9C28B5@drowsy.ifokr.org> References: <20090912162925.CA9C28B5@drowsy.ifokr.org> Message-ID: <58222.216.162.218.13.1252884727.squirrel@webmail.drizzle.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:35:23 -0400 > From: "Paul DeShaw" > Subject: Re: [Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio > To: gslug-general@gslug.org, lucas.thompson@gmail.com > > Hi, > > I would like to revisit this, now that KBCS is retiring most of, IMHO, the > best programming available anywhere. Their streaming archives go back two > weeks, after which they will be deleted. > > Last night, I followed the link to the blog mentioned by Lucas below, and > was able to record to an external drive. Unfortunately, through an > apparent slip of the finger it was recorded as mp4 rather than mp3, but it > is there: [...] > "Arecord captures the audio that goes through your computer and pipes it > to the lame encoder, so you encode the audio directly to an mp3 file. You > can specify more options to the lame encoder such as the bitrate with lame > -x -b bitrate. Without specifying the bitrate it encodes to 128kbps > constant bit rate cbr. If you want to record for an specific amount of > time then: > > arecord -f cd -d numberofseconds -t raw | lame -x -r ?? out.mp3" > [...] Assuming this is legal, I would like to suggest another approach. I would suggest using streamripper to grab the live KBCS mp3 audio stream. Then use mpgedit to pare down the mp3 file from streamripper into the sections you want and then tag them with easytag. You can put streamripper in your crontab so it automatically records the shows you want. The advantages of this method are as follows: * You are grabbing an mp3 stream and not the raw output of the player. This means you don't have to compress the stream. Note that compressing the raw audio output from the player and arecord causes you to lose audio fidelity. * Using mpgedit to pare down the large mp3 file is better because mpgedit edits the mp3 file directly. Some other tools decompress the mp3 file for editing and then recompress the file after editing. This is slow and causes loss of audio fidelity. The disadvantages of this method are as follow: * You must have a computer connected to the internet while your show is being streamed live. * This does not help you if you missed grabbing the live show with streamripper. Good Luck! From lee.colleton at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 10:25:42 2009 From: lee.colleton at gmail.com (Lee Colleton) Date: Mon Sep 14 10:31:58 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Re: Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio In-Reply-To: <58222.216.162.218.13.1252884727.squirrel@webmail.drizzle.com> References: <20090912162925.CA9C28B5@drowsy.ifokr.org> <58222.216.162.218.13.1252884727.squirrel@webmail.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <59c88c4d0909141025h13435182g8d3426810cd0ab9f@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 16:32, Vernon Van Steenkist wrote: > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:35:23 -0400 > > From: "Paul DeShaw" > > Subject: Re: [Gslug-general] Linux scripts for audio > > To: gslug-general@gslug.org, lucas.thompson@gmail.com > > > > Hi, > > > > I would like to revisit this, now that KBCS is retiring most of, IMHO, > the > > best programming available anywhere. Their streaming archives go back two > > weeks, after which they will be deleted. > > > > Last night, I followed the link to the blog mentioned by Lucas below, and > > was able to record to an external drive. Unfortunately, through an > > apparent slip of the finger it was recorded as mp4 rather than mp3, but > it > > is there: > > > arecord -f cd -d numberofseconds -t raw | lame -x -r ?? out.mp3" LAME will only encode mp3 files, changing the extension of the output file to mp4 won't affect the encoding of that file. Also renaming foo.mp3 to foo.mp4 will only have an effect if you launch a different music playing program associated with that extension. Cheers, Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090914/20116a95/attachment.html From jvoss at altsci.com Wed Sep 16 10:26:28 2009 From: jvoss at altsci.com (Joel R. Voss) Date: Wed Sep 16 10:25:33 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <2625b9520909130941t32671b51ha9e1abbadea6bba3@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> <200909121836.01020.jvoss@altsci.com> <2625b9520909130941t32671b51ha9e1abbadea6bba3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909161026.29219.jvoss@altsci.com> Hi Thushara, The problems you explain are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be. The DMCA is a bunk law and the EFF defeats it nearly every step of the way. The DMCA covers copyright not patent and allows Reverse Engineering for Fair Use. A hardware manufacturer with an exclusive arrangement with Microsoft cannot stop open source people from writing drivers, patents be damned. These rights that open source developers have I take very seriously and no one should assume that there is any legal problem until it actually stops them. Driver development is currently unhindered by patents or the DMCA. Bunnie's XBox crack was a DMCA thing (copyright, not patent) and affected reverse engineering a cryptography system. This does not affect any driver development. IMHO, Bunnie might have been able to get the EFF to fight that case. The ASF format was a patent thing, but the author folded just because Microsoft's lawyer sent a C&D. That isn't a valid argument. Patenting a braindead file format like FAT has not stopped the Linux kernel from writing drivers for it. The victim of the patent ends up being a company like TomTom who sells thousands of GPS devices with that format being used on the SD card. The kernel developers and users do not need to worry about patents, it's businesses who put it in a key part of their product that need to worry. In the case of FAT and ASF, there are perfectly good patent free alternatives, which makes open standards all the more important. Sadly SD cards are fubar because they standardized on FAT. http://www.pubpat.org/microsoftfat.htm Btw, I am playing an asf file right now with mplayer (who completely disregards all copyright and patent law). -- Regards, Joel R. Voss http://AltSci.com On Sunday 13 September 2009, Thushara Wijeratna wrote: > hi Joel - from the link you sent, it seems that under the DMCA, you need to > obtain permission from the manufacturer of the system you are reverse > engineering. so for noveau, seems like you have the permission and it is > all good. but obviously, it is possible to be denied that permission. you > are correct that a hardware vendor should have no issues from some one > reverse engineering in order to make a driver, but it is possible that a > hardware manufacturer has an exclusive arrangement with a company (like > Microsoft) that forces their hand. > > the one case i can remember off the top of my head is Bunnie's Xbox crack: > http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082-996787.html > > here is another instance where ASF file format decoding was not allowed by > MS: > http://www.advogato.org/article/101.html > > thanks, > thushara > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Joel R. Voss wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I just thought I'd chime in here to say that patent laws do not prevent > > nor punish reverse engineering (nor does copyright). Reverse engineering > > is protected under fair use. http://chillingeffects.org/reverse Also > > hardware vendors and their patent holders have no reason to litigate over > > patents because drivers make their hardware accessible to a larger > > audience. > > > > Drivers are definitely a point where Linux is in heavy development. For > > example nouveau is reverse engineering and developing nvidia drivers from > > scratch. They are a few releases away from a stable 2d driver and > > possibly a > > year away from experimental 3d driver in the kernel. A few years ago wifi > > was > > in poor shape and now it just works for most of the drivers (b43 being > > one where extra firmware needs to be downloaded once). > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Joel R. Voss > > http://AltSci.com > > > > On Saturday 12 September 2009, Thushara Wijeratna wrote: > > > the biggest problem i've found with Linux is the lack of drivers. also > > > > GPL > > > > > has restrictions on shipping non-open drivers so one has to go and find > > > them. patent laws prevent reverse engineering drivers. > > > > > > thushara > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Beyer > > > > >wrote: > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Joe moo > > > > wrote: > > > > > One of the reasons Linux is not as popular as it should be in my > > > > > opinion is inconsistencies. It is good to have many different > > > > > options(distros) especially for Power Users (like myself) and > > > > > Developers. However, the problem with that is all of the > > > > > inconsistencies between them, this is a big issue for end users and > > > > is > > > > > > I won't argue that it isn't an issue, but I fail to see how you could > > > > resolve all the inconsistencies without sacrificing most of the > > > > benefits of having the variety in the first place. There are things > > > > that _should_ be consistent, where consistency does not meaningfully > > > > impact people's choices, but most of them already are...POSIX, LSB, > > > > freedesktop.org, and others have already resolved most of the > > > > low-hanging fruit here. I think the things that they haven't > > > > approached or haven't succeeded in standardizing are mostly those > > > > where by mandating a standard you take away choices people want to be > > > > able to make. > > > > > > > > > probably why the end-user market doesn't extend much farther than > > > > > netbooks. > > > > > > > > Major hardware vendors marketed netbooks with linux to a general > > > > audience. That hasn't happened on the same scale for any other class > > > > of hardware (at least any comparable to a pc -- I'll ignore more > > > > deeply embedded devices for the moment), so I don't think its really > > > > a valid comparison. The vast majority of people use the os that ships > > > > on their computer and are unlikely to switch...many don't know they > > > > can. > > > > > > > > > I believe that it is time to set some standards for all of > > > > > the projects out there; standards that can be agreed upon and > > > > followed > > > > > > > by the majority of projects. > > > > > > > > Lots of people have tried...good luck. > > > > > > > > > is because Windoze has an architecture > > > > > that most applications follow > > > > > > > > I'm going a bit off-topic here, but I'd take issue with that. For a > > > > single entity, Microsoft can put out an amazing and bewildering array > > > > of related and overlapping technologies with the attending > > > > inconsistencies and incompatibilities. The core win32 api is > > > > relatively clean and consistent, but is pretty much comparable to > > > > what posix offers...not enough of a standard to build on from > > > > scratch. I think .NET alleviated, if still not resolved the issue. > > > > But > > > > particularly before then, writing a significant application on > > > > windows involved a fair bit of black magic making Win32, MFC, ATL, > > > > COM, COM+, ActiveX, the VB runtime, et. al. cooperate unless any one > > > > of them provided everything you needed, and you didn't interact with > > > > any other software that used any of the others. > > > > > > > > > WX is one of the greatest examples of a simple cross > > > > > platform architecture > > > > > ... > > > > > One solution to that is the > > > > > pitifully unused but amazing autopackage framework! > > > > > > > > Both technologies which, even if you can argue their technical > > > > superiority to other options, are already uncommon/underrepresented. > > > > Try to build a standard on that, and you get a "standard" on paper > > > > which no one conforms to. Adoption has to come before standardization > > > > unless you just want to put out well intentioned documents, or can > > > > force people to comply. > > > > > > > > If you really think these are the solution, your task isn't > > > > standardization, it's advocacy... you need to convince people to > > > > adopt them. Get a modern and full-featured web browser and office > > > > suite to adopt WX as their gui platform. (if you suggest this on the > > > > mozilla or oo.org lists, please don't cc me on the resulting > > > > flamefest :) Get everything (or some significant subset) in Ubuntu's > > > > universe or multiverse (or some other sufficiently large set of > > > > software) packaged as an autopackage file, and publish a central > > > > collection somewhere. > > > > > > > > > Linux needs to stick to a standard that users can follow if it is > > > > > to > > > > > > > > thrive! > > > > > > > > Does it? Why should every distribution that happens to use the same > > > > kernel also make all the same choices and trade-offs in userspace? If > > > > you want a consistent set of choices already pre-made for you, why > > > > not just stick with windows? Or choose a single linux-based distro > > > > and use the software packaged for it? If you want to make your own > > > > set of choices, what makes you think they will be any more generally > > > > appropriate for everyone else than the ones various distros have > > > > made? > > > > > > > > > PS. No I'm not putting down Linux I'm just suggesting new ideas! > > > > > > > > And I'm not putting down your ideas, but there have never been a > > > > dearth of people with ideas of how linux should "standardize", > > > > particularly when said standard would include their favorite bits of > > > > software. I'm not saying that there aren't huge improvements to be > > > > made in many areas, but I think the solution is to develop and/or > > > > spread the better software, not to rhapsodize on the merits of it > > > > being declared a standard. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Gslug-general mailing list > > > > Gslug-general@gslug.org > > > > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gslug-general mailing list > > Gslug-general@gslug.org > > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general From mjevans1983 at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 16:06:38 2009 From: mjevans1983 at gmail.com (Michael Evans) Date: Wed Sep 16 16:05:38 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] The next generation of Linux (or what it should be) In-Reply-To: <200909161026.29219.jvoss@altsci.com> References: <296622aa0909011213u64ba18fapb50a3ba78313a814@mail.gmail.com> <200909121836.01020.jvoss@altsci.com> <2625b9520909130941t32671b51ha9e1abbadea6bba3@mail.gmail.com> <200909161026.29219.jvoss@altsci.com> Message-ID: <4877c76c0909161606m1b7e8969m13fbf435d67b3fd4@mail.gmail.com> Also because Microsoft's operating systems ship with -zero- support for any competitors filesystems. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090916/c1c21f6d/attachment.htm From john_re at fastmail.us Fri Sep 18 02:49:59 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Fri Sep 18 02:55:23 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding Message-ID: <1253267399.28012.1335458773@webmail.messagingengine.com> Get a VOIP headset, Install VOIP client SW, & join the global GNU(Linux) meeting this Sunday Sept 20, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8), 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?) http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance Lots of great, exciting new things for Linux users, as we start Year 2 of the Global FSW GNU(Linux)/BSD, Free HW, Free Culture, TIP meetings: TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programing Party. Educational, Productive, Social. Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP, or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe. ===== Quick announcement. We're starting up BTIP year 2, for the 2009-10 school year. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home September Videos: Puppet language, Python mystery talks, CampKDE http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos This year 2 we'll be focusing on 1) Inviting UC Berkeley students via poster/flyers 2) Getting local meetings going at California colleges 3) Getting invitations out to more American countries 4) Getting topic groups (OLPC, Python, KDE & GNOME, Ubuntu, etc) having simultaneous meetings. 5) Improving our VOIP server, perhaps upgrading to FreeSwitch. == Come join the Sept 20 Sunday meeting, get on voip, chat, discuss the videos, work on your own projects & share them with others, help educate students, & help work on the group projects. Join #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net, & we'll help you get your VOIP HW & SW working. :) Join the mailing lists & say hi, tell us what you are interested in. http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/?pli=1 You are invited to forward this message anywhere it would be welcomed. :) From mark at foster.cc Fri Sep 18 22:06:16 2009 From: mark at foster.cc (Mark Foster) Date: Fri Sep 18 22:05:20 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Install Fest 2009 Message-ID: <4AB466C8.2030802@foster.cc> Hi Everyone - for those who haven't heard, we're going to have an Install Fest and collection event tomorrow from 1-5pm at Greenwood Library. Find out more and RSVP at http://wiki.gslug.org/index.php/Install_Fest_2009 Hope to see you there! -- I hate racists. Mark D. Foster http://mark.foster.cc/ | http://conshell.net/ From mjevans1983 at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 11:17:59 2009 From: mjevans1983 at gmail.com (Michael Evans) Date: Sun Sep 20 11:16:54 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] External Hard Drive Trouble with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <200909121918.47352.cemeyer@u.washington.edu> References: <200909121918.47352.cemeyer@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <4877c76c0909201117j4f6ed5a6na896c4fc53093738@mail.gmail.com> I just had an idea about where my laptop and the laptop that had issue with the external enclosure might differ. While I haven't changed any of the rules for hotplugging or hal, I -am- a member of unusual groups on my laptop. uid=1000(user) gid=1000(user) groups=1000(user),4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),29(audio),46(plugdev),107(fuse),113(lpadmin),120(admin),122(sambashare),128(kqemu),130(pulse-access),131(pulse-rt) > I've had very similar problems with cheap USB drive enclosures. I didn't > find > a solution other than unplugging / replugging it a bunch of times, and even > then it would sometimes disconnect randomly. I never found a real solution > and > have it hooked up directly with SATA now. > > Regards, > -- > Conrad Meyer > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090920/37fa6b26/attachment.html From zaltar at myway.com Sun Sep 20 12:00:14 2009 From: zaltar at myway.com (Paul DeShaw) Date: Sun Sep 20 11:59:08 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding Message-ID: <20090920150014.14559@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> I am attempting this. I installed the recommended SFLPhone software with the GNOME client. I cannot see from the linked page, how to actually connect. Nor do I understand how to get the software to talk to JACK so I can use the mic and headphones I have available. I don't have a VOIP headset, but I have used Skype with a separate mic and headphones. It was not a problem. Maybe you can't do this with the SFLPhone software? Even if I can just listen for awhile it would be cool. If you have any ideas, send them along. --Paul -----Original Message----- From: "john_re" [john_re@fastmail.us] Date: 09/18/2009 02:56 AM To: gslug-general@gslug.org Subject: Re: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding Get a VOIP headset, Install VOIP client SW, & join the global GNU(Linux) meeting this Sunday Sept 20, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8), 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?) http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance Lots of great, exciting new things for Linux users, as we start Year 2 of the Global FSW GNU(Linux)/BSD, Free HW, Free Culture, TIP meetings: TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programing Party. Educational, Productive, Social. Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP, or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe. ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! Weight Loss Program http://216.21.215.31/fc/FgElN1l88j3SoUyuyPDfYsUAcRQiNpPybCycvrCfUc2LGOptjdpO6v7R6qk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090920/c7d57013/attachment.htm From cahewson at eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 14:14:07 2009 From: cahewson at eskimo.com (Charles A. Hewson) Date: Sun Sep 20 14:27:25 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding In-Reply-To: <20090920150014.14559@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20090920150014.14559@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: I don't have bandwidth for voip myself but you may find help on their ICR channel. > >Join #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net, & we'll help you get your VOIP HW >& SW working. :) Snip from previous announcement. Charles On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Paul DeShaw wrote: > I am attempting this. I installed the recommended SFLPhone software with the GNOME client. I cannot see from the linked page, how to actually connect. Nor do I understand how to get the software to talk to JACK so I can use the mic and headphones I have available. I don't have a VOIP headset, but I have used Skype with a separate mic and headphones. It was not a problem. Maybe you can't do this with the SFLPhone software? > > Even if I can just listen for awhile it would be cool. If you have any ideas, send them along. > > --Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "john_re" [john_re@fastmail.us] > Date: 09/18/2009 02:56 AM > To: gslug-general@gslug.org > Subject: Re: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP > - for forwarding > > Get a VOIP headset, Install VOIP client SW, & join the global GNU(Linux) meeting this > Sunday Sept 20, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8), > 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?) > http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance > > Lots of great, exciting new things for Linux users, > as we start Year 2 of the Global FSW GNU(Linux)/BSD, > Free HW, Free Culture, TIP meetings: > TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programing Party. > Educational, Productive, Social. > > Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP, > or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe. > > > ===== > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! > Weight Loss Program > http://216.21.215.31/fc/FgElN1l88j3SoUyuyPDfYsUAcRQiNpPybCycvrCfUc2LGOptjdpO6v7R6qk/ -- Charles Hewson Seattle, WA. U.S.A. From ashex at chipnick.com Sun Sep 20 14:31:35 2009 From: ashex at chipnick.com (Ahmed Osman) Date: Sun Sep 20 15:02:05 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] External Hard Drive Trouble with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4877c76c0909201117j4f6ed5a6na896c4fc53093738@mail.gmail.com> References: <200909121918.47352.cemeyer@u.washington.edu> <4877c76c0909201117j4f6ed5a6na896c4fc53093738@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB69F37.2070203@chipnick.com> Are there any udev rules setup for drive detection? Also, does it show up in fdisk at all? Michael Evans wrote: > I just had an idea about where my laptop and the laptop that had issue > with the external enclosure might differ. While I haven't changed any > of the rules for hotplugging or hal, I -am- a member of unusual groups > on my laptop. > > > uid=1000(user) gid=1000(user) > groups=1000(user),4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),29(audio),46(plugdev),107(fuse),113(lpadmin),120(admin),122(sambashare),128(kqemu),130(pulse-access),131(pulse-rt) > > > I've had very similar problems with cheap USB drive enclosures. I > didn't find > a solution other than unplugging / replugging it a bunch of times, > and even > then it would sometimes disconnect randomly. I never found a real > solution and > have it hooked up directly with SATA now. > > Regards, > -- > Conrad Meyer > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gslug-general mailing list > Gslug-general@gslug.org > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general From starquestnerd at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 16:44:30 2009 From: starquestnerd at gmail.com (Joe moo) Date: Mon Sep 21 17:05:45 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] An idea for a talk for the October 10th meeting (feedback please!) Message-ID: <296622aa0909211644s2e19dd53l631f36b7280cc456@mail.gmail.com> What about a talk on BitTorrent and how it helps Linux in general! Bulletin of possible discussions: * How BitTorrent helps save money for Linux distros * A list of bittorrent clients * Details on the protocol and how it works (I'd like a volunteer for this one) * Other alternatives to save hosting costs for Linux (eg. anonymous file sharing networks like the MUTE network or the RShare network) * Drawbacks and advantages to P2P for Linux. What do you guys think? Ps. I don't know if I'll be coming on october 10th ill find out soon though! From john_re at fastmail.us Mon Sep 21 17:14:09 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Mon Sep 21 17:13:01 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - for forwarding In-Reply-To: <20090920150014.14559@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> References: <20090920150014.14559@web010.roc2.bluetie.com> Message-ID: <1253578449.23680.1335949463@webmail.messagingengine.com> Join with us on IRC, as the fastest feedback way to get interactive help getting it all working. :) irc.freenode.net #berkeleytip Also, join TONIGHT,[via both irc & voip, if u wish] in a few hours, for the BTIP talk to LUGOD, where people will hearn about how BTIP can benefit their local LUG, & how to connect & get voip working on a computer, or by dial in from a regular or cell telephone. :) On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:00:14 -0400, "Paul DeShaw" said: > I am attempting this. I installed the recommended SFLPhone software with > the GNOME client. I cannot see from the linked page, how to actually > connect. Nor do I understand how to get the software to talk to JACK so > I can use the mic and headphones I have available. I don't have a VOIP > headset, but I have used Skype with a separate mic and headphones. It > was not a problem. Maybe you can't do this with the SFLPhone software? > > Even if I can just listen for awhile it would be cool. If you have any > ideas, send them along. > > --Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "john_re" [john_re@fastmail.us] > Date: 09/18/2009 02:56 AM > To: gslug-general@gslug.org > Subject: Re: [Gslug-general] Sunday 20th Global Linux Mtg via VOIP - > BerkeleyTIP > - for forwarding > > Get a VOIP headset, Install VOIP client SW, & join the global GNU(Linux) > meeting this > Sunday Sept 20, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8), > 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?) > http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance > > Lots of great, exciting new things for Linux users, > as we start Year 2 of the Global FSW GNU(Linux)/BSD, > Free HW, Free Culture, TIP meetings: > TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programing Party. > Educational, Productive, Social. > > Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP, > or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe. > From mjevans1983 at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 19:35:24 2009 From: mjevans1983 at gmail.com (Michael Evans) Date: Mon Sep 21 19:41:37 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] An idea for a talk for the October 10th meeting (feedback please!) In-Reply-To: <296622aa0909211644s2e19dd53l631f36b7280cc456@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909211644s2e19dd53l631f36b7280cc456@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4877c76c0909211935u6d039ab8led0a2831c03d8e1@mail.gmail.com> Torrent is a great idea, but it's really a first release candidate of the idea. There are a number of deficiencies that I could address in a presentation. Offhand: I believe the protocol has been revised so that strings are /supposed/ to be UTF-8; but many clients fail to create or process files that way (clean 7 bit ASCII always works w/o issue though). Work is ongoing to spread UDP delivery of data; which is how it should have been from the start (since it detects and recovers errors anyway). There are methods of going tracker-less now, but it's still much better with a tracker. I've always had an issue with the way torrents -strictly- have checksums only on the arbitrary blocks. I'd like additional checksums over the files as wholes. I'd probably accomplish that with an extra array of 'split checksum pairs' in order as well. An alternative would be file checksums of some type. It would be even nicer if torrent trackers supported multicast on the local network; that would provide for both distributed host sessions on local torrents and allow for efficent use of network media (sharing any parts uploaded among everyone at almost the media speed). Finally it would be great if suspected partly corrupted blocks could be repaired without resending the whole block, but by operating a par2 style repair on a matrix of non-conforming blocks with a target error rate. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Joe moo wrote: > What about a talk on BitTorrent and how it helps Linux in general! > > Bulletin of possible discussions: > > * How BitTorrent helps save money for Linux distros > * A list of bittorrent clients > * Details on the protocol and how it works (I'd like a volunteer for this > one) > * Other alternatives to save hosting costs for Linux (eg. anonymous > file sharing networks like the MUTE network or the RShare network) > * Drawbacks and advantages to P2P for Linux. > > What do you guys think? > > Ps. I don't know if I'll be coming on october 10th ill find out soon > though! > _______________________________________________ > Gslug-general mailing list > Gslug-general@gslug.org > http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ifokr.org/pipermail/gslug-general/attachments/20090921/ea494bcd/attachment.html From starquestnerd at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 20:04:40 2009 From: starquestnerd at gmail.com (Joe moo) Date: Tue Sep 22 20:03:31 2009 Subject: [Gslug-general] An idea for a talk for the October 10th meeting (feedback please!) In-Reply-To: <4877c76c0909211935u6d039ab8led0a2831c03d8e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <296622aa0909211644s2e19dd53l631f36b7280cc456@mail.gmail.com> <4877c76c0909211935u6d039ab8led0a2831c03d8e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <296622aa0909222004l7e962119m272c6829de552b2b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for your suggestions but due to the fact that 1. p2p is controversial and 2. I've changed my mind (as usual) I'm thinking of doing a talk on compiling software I've never seen anyone do it and the last time I came to gslug there were many new users! On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Michael Evans wrote: > Torrent is a great idea, but it's really a first release candidate of the > idea.? There are a number of deficiencies that I could address in a > presentation. > > Offhand: > > I believe the protocol has been revised so that strings are /supposed/ to be > UTF-8; but many clients fail to create or process files that way (clean 7 > bit ASCII always works w/o issue though). > > Work is ongoing to spread UDP delivery of data; which is how it should have > been from the start (since it detects and recovers errors anyway). > > There are methods of going tracker-less now, but it's still much better with > a tracker. > > I've always had an issue with the way torrents -strictly- have checksums > only on the arbitrary blocks.? I'd like additional checksums over the files > as wholes.? I'd probably accomplish that with an extra array of 'split > checksum pairs' in order as well.? An alternative would be file checksums of > some type. > > It would be even nicer if torrent trackers supported multicast on the local > network; that would provide for both distributed host sessions on local > torrents and allow for efficent use of network media (sharing any parts > uploaded among everyone at almost the media speed). > > Finally it would be great if suspected partly corrupted blocks could be > repaired without resending the whole block, but by operating a par2 style > repair on a matrix of non-conforming blocks with a target error rate. > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Joe moo wrote: >> >> What about a talk on BitTorrent and how it helps Linux in general! >> >> Bulletin of possible discussions: >> >> * How BitTorrent helps save money for Linux distros >> * A list of bittorrent clients >> * Details on the protocol and how it works (I'd like a volunteer for this >> one) >> * Other alternatives to save hosting costs for Linux (eg. anonymous >> file sharing networks like the MUTE network or the RShare network) >> * Drawbacks and advantages to P2P for Linux. >> >> What do you guys think? >> >> Ps. I don't know if I'll be coming on october 10th ill find out soon >> though! >> _______________________________________________ >> Gslug-general mailing list >> Gslug-general@gslug.org >> http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general > >